Subterranean Termites

[aaronm]

Codeman:

I have two questions along the same lines. I hope it is OK to ask them both within one post.

My first question involves the, in my opinion, absurd idea that someone who finds structural damage caused by subterranean termites can, with any degree of accuracy, determine the duration of the infestation. What are your thoughts on this?

Secondly, I often see termite bait station systems being utilized as preventative termite treatments. It has been my experience that these may be viable treatment options when used in combination with chemical soil treatments, but act merely to attract termites to the structure when used alone. How do you feel about this practice?

Thanks,

Aaron

[Jerry Peck - Codeman]

Hi Aaron,

No problem asking two questions at the same time. I will answer each question separately, though.

There is no realistic way to determine the duration of a termite infestation from the degree of damage. The degree of damage has more to do with the size the termite colony than the duration of time the colony has been infesting the structure. New colonies have fewer termites than mature colonies have.

Additionally, was there termite damage from a previous colony, a treatment applied killing the termites, and now a different colony has taken over adding to the damage.

Then, to complicate matters even more, the amount the termite colony eats depends on the species of wood, its moisture content, and if the colony is also feeding elsewhere.

Let's say a "typical" colony of 300,000 Southeastern Subterranean termites can eat a 2 foot long 2x4 per day (forget that the colony size of a "typical" colony may vary from 150,000 to 500,000, making any statements about a "typical" colony meaningless), and let's say that colony is feasting on more than one food source (plants, another structure, etc., making any statements about how much the colony typically eats in a typical day meaningless), and let's say that the wood is dry and of a harder species (making any comparisons about much a typical colony can eat of a typical wood in a typical day meaningless) ... why waste all the other "typical" parameters regarding the amounts of wood a termite colony can eat per day, which are meaningless given all of real life's variances, and instead just draw a number from a hat.

The answer is "No. There is no realistic way to determine, with any degree of accuracy, the duration of a termite infestation.

I am always open to learning new things, and if someone has a sure-fire-does-not-fail method of determining the duration of a termite infestation, then I would like to see it and have it explained to me. I also hope that the explanation includes something other than:
- A single termite can each X grams of wood per day, with 250,000 workers in the colony the colony can eat 'X times 250,000 grams per day', and with the species of wood being Y ... then a miracle happens ... thus, the duration of the infestation by that colony is Z months.

That part where it says "then a miracle happens" needs to be explained in detail before the answer is believable.

Codeman

[Jerry Peck - Codeman]

Aaron,

Here is the answer to your second question.

"How do you feel about this practice?"

How *I* "feel" about using monitoring systems in place of chemical or other barrier systems is strictly that - "How *I* "feel".", not how the various manufacturers, distributors, pest control operators who install them, nor the government agencies who approved their use, feel about them.

Just making the record straight - the question was *how* *I* *feel* about them.

*I* feel that they *may be* effective in killing the colony *when* ... *when* they are monitored as required, and *when* they take a hit and that hit is discovered and the monitoring station attractant is replaced with the treated bait which then may be taken back to the colony where the colony may be effectively killed. There sure are a lot of *when* and *may* conditions in there. *When* those systems are installed and not monitored as required(which, in my experience, is most of the time), they are, as you put it, merely attractants which, when they take a hit, concentrate the termites into a smaller area, and from which the termites may then seek out 'another food source' (that attractant in the monitoring station will not feed a colony for very long), with that 'other food source' being the structure which has been ringed by the attractants in those monitoring stations.

Do they work? There have been a lot of tests and experiments done which have satisfied the approval agencies that 'they work well enough' to be approved, and, now that they have been approved, they are approved to *replace* the other systems.

I am not saying that those systems 'do not work', I am saying that in my opinion they do not work well enough for me rely on them as the sole treatment method. I used to be a Certified Pest Control Operator in the state of Florida but retired in 2006 and did not renew my license or certification, so I am not coming from an uninformed point of view. Simply put, those systems do not work well enough for me to *only use* those systems by themselves.

I do know several Florida Certified Pest Control Operators who swear by those systems, and swear they work better than chemical and other barrier systems, and we have debated the issues relating to the various systems back and forth numerous times in the past.

So it gets down to what is ones 'professional' 'personal' opinion ('professional' meaning one knows of it and was in the profession, and 'personal' meaning it is the opinion of the Certified Pest Control Operator to do as they chose using *approved* systems, or selecting the *approved* system they prefer).

Now, if you asked this question: 'Would *I* use only those monitoring/baiting systems on my house *as the only* termite protection system.', my answer would be "No."

I would then, however, add: 'But there is nothing wrong with using those monitoring/baiting systems *in addition to* a chemical or other barrier system.'

Codeman

[aaronm]

Hi Aaron,

No problem asking two questions at the same time. I will answer each question separately, though.

There is no realistic way to determine the duration of a termite infestation from the degree of damage. The degree of damage has more to do with the size the termite colony than the duration of time the colony has been infesting the structure. New colonies have fewer termites than mature colonies have.

Additionally, was there termite damage from a previous colony, a treatment applied killing the termites, and now a different colony has taken over adding to the damage.

Then, to complicate matters even more, the amount the termite colony eats depends on the species of wood, its moisture content, and if the colony is also feeding elsewhere.

Let's say a "typical" colony of 300,000 Southeastern Subterranean termites can eat a 2 foot long 2x4 per day (forget that the colony size of a "typical" colony may vary from 150,000 to 500,000, making any statements about a "typical" colony meaningless), and let's say that colony is feasting on more than one food source (plants, another structure, etc., making any statements about how much the colony typically eats in a typical day meaningless), and let's say that the wood is dry and of a harder species (making any comparisons about much a typical colony can eat of a typical wood in a typical day meaningless) ... why waste all the other "typical" parameters regarding the amounts of wood a termite colony can eat per day, which are meaningless given all of real life's variances, and instead just draw a number from a hat.

The answer is "No. There is no realistic way to determine, with any degree of accuracy, the duration of a termite infestation.

I am always open to learning new things, and if someone has a sure-fire-does-not-fail method of determining the duration of a termite infestation, then I would like to see it and have it explained to me. I also hope that the explanation includes something other than:
- A single termite can each X grams of wood per day, with 250,000 workers in the colony the colony can eat 'X times 250,000 grams per day', and with the species of wood being Y ... then a miracle happens ... thus, the duration of the infestation by that colony is Z months.

That part where it says "then a miracle happens" needs to be explained in detail before the answer is believable.

Codeman

Thanks Codeman!

[Jerry Peck - Codeman]

You are welcome, Aaron.

Codeman